Tips, Wages
Hello, So I have been working at this coffee shop since it opened in February. I was told I would make 8.00 an hour and the tips work out to be about an extra dollar an hour. He pulls them all together for the whole week and then splits it that way. We dont get them the day of. But it seems that I am really getting short changed. One day when I was working I saw there was about 14 dollars in the tip basket. That's not including probably around another 15 dollars that we got in credit card tips. That day another worker was there with me and the manager. He worked until about 4. I worked a 6 hour shift. Then the next day I worked a 7 hour shift. When I get to pick up my tips..(which I have to ask for several times because he never offers them or always has an excuse that they aren't ready)
I got like 4.75 for that time. How is this even possible?
It makes me really frustrated. I believe he is taking the rest of the money for himself but how do I approach him about this? Is there a proper way to split tips and how do I resolve this? Id rather not quit because I really love it.
I got like 4.75 for that time. How is this even possible?
It makes me really frustrated. I believe he is taking the rest of the money for himself but how do I approach him about this? Is there a proper way to split tips and how do I resolve this? Id rather not quit because I really love it.
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Chris/Dale on
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The first thing I would do is talk to your manager, explain what you've seen and ask him to fully explain the store's tip policy...If that doesn't jive with what you've seen then seek employment elsewhere.
It doesn't matter how much i love a job , if my boss is dirty then I'm out.
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Permalink Reply by Missy on
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Yeah, I know what you mean. Sometimes it may not be worth it. He's a real good kid (the owner/manager)
but I really wonder about the work ethics sometimes. Is it common to not mention that tips are ready? I worked this past weekend Saturday 12-7. Sunday 2-9. I can pick up my tips and it was about 4.73. I dont want to blame him for stealing w/o knowing but everyone seems to say the same thing. "We never get our tips" The other baristas say. So I know its not just me. The other part thats super tough is the only other managers that work there are his mother and father. So its awkward. I dont want to step on any family toes.
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Permalink Reply by Jay Caragay on
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That just sounds like a slippery slope. If management is collecting the tips for distribution later, how is this being tallied? Further, is it being paid in cash (which would be an "under the table" payment and illegal) or are the tips being paid with your wages (if so, it should be listed as a separate line item apart from your hourly compensation, and the entirety being taxed)?
Quite simply, management holding tips in this manner is poor form. If they're going to hold tips, pool and distribute them, then they need to account for the money and withhold taxes appropriately.
The best route is for management not to get involved in the handling of tips. Leave the tips to be distributed in a manner that management determines but stay out of it. Let the employee face the burden of reporting tips.
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Thanks guys for helping me with this! Well he said he puts them all together at the end of the week and you get about a dollar extra an hour. I work about 8 hours one day and 7 another ..so that should be about 15 dollars I get right? I dont understand how it is coming out to about $4.00. Somedays I only work with him and no one else. So those days I should be receiving even more. Just cuz I believe managers/owners arent supposed to be in on the tip pool if I understand correctly? And its not like its completely dead. We do get customers leaving tips! We would just get them in cash. I dont get them in a check form.
Jay Caragay said:That just sounds like a slippery slope. If management is collecting the tips for distribution later, how is this being tallied? Further, is it being paid in cash (which would be an "under the table" payment and illegal) or are the tips being paid with your wages (if so, it should be listed as a separate line item apart from your hourly compensation, and the entirety being taxed)?
Quite simply, management holding tips in this manner is poor form. If they're going to hold tips, pool and distribute them, then they need to account for the money and withhold taxes appropriately.
The best route is for management not to get involved in the handling of tips. Leave the tips to be distributed in a manner that management determines but stay out of it. Let the employee face the burden of reporting tips.
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Permalink Reply by Bryan Wray on
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I would approach him with these questions in mind, and any others that you may have:
1) What percentage of the tips am I receiving vs. the percentage you are receiving?
2) What was the total of tips last week? If he doesn't have a log, he doesn't have a clue...
3) Bring your specific case to him. Explain that you worked 15 hours and received only $4.00.
"You said I would be receiving about an extra dollar an hour, but last week I only received about a quarter an hour. I'm counting on that extra dollar, etc etc etc."
If they don't seem to have a solid answer then get out. A good job isn't a good job if you are being cheated.
-bry
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Permalink Reply by Dave_G on
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The agreement that i have in my cafe is that the tips are pooled (Australia isn't that big on tipping), and we have a party (piss up), when there is enough in the kitty. I know my staff appreciate this, it gives them a night out with no $$$'s from their pocket. Every six months or so, we have about $1000 to share between 10 of us.
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Permalink Reply by Mike McGinness on
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There needs to be a clear, accountable, timely tip handling policy. Don't let some owner's kid rip you off. (FWIW I'm an owner saying this.) Tips do NOT normally belong to the house but to the employees. Even when I work a shift (as owner) I don't include my shift time in the tip split, unless I'm working shift by myself.
While we pool and split the tips end of day daily we also log them. The key is LOGGED, on the time sheets, by the closer or me if I'm there. The split is simple ratio of total tips for the day divided by all hours all employees worked that day multiplied by individual hours worked. (The tip total is cash and cc's.)
FWIW I just week before last ran the numbers year to date tip average for the benefit of a new employee: $4.05 tips per hour per employee average January through July. $1 an hour average sounds lame, 25 cents hour down right ludicrous.
Tips while paid daily (next day unless they're there at closing) in cash as I said they are logged on the time sheet. They are then included in payroll as two entries: report cash tips and report cash tips paid out for the time period so properly dealt with IRS, Social Security and Medicare withholding wise.
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miKe mcKoffee aka Mike McGinness said:There needs to be a clear, accountable, timely tip handling policy. Don't let some owner's kid rip you off. (FWIW I'm an owner saying this.) Tips do NOT normally belong to the house but to the employees. Even when I work a shift (as owner) I don't include my shift time in the tip split, unless I'm working shift by myself.
While we pool and split the tips end of day daily we also log them. The key is LOGGED, on the time sheets, by the closer or me if I'm there. The split is simple ratio of total tips for the day divided by all hours all employees worked that day multiplied by individual hours worked. (The tip total is cash and cc's.)
FWIW I just week before last ran the numbers year to date tip average for the benefit of a new employee: $4.05 tips per hour per employee average January through July. $1 an hour average sounds lame, 25 cents hour down right ludicrous.
Tips while paid daily (next day unless they're there at closing) in cash as I said they are logged on the time sheet. They are then included in payroll as two entries: report cash tips and report cash tips paid out for the time period so properly dealt with IRS, Social Security and Medicare withholding wise.
Yup.
Every shop I have worked at (I think I'm up to 6 now...) has had this system (except for the under the table ones, it's illegal, but you know it happens). If this is not the system your employer is using, ask them to switch to it. If they refuse ask them why. If they refuse to explain then they are probably just afraid of someone catching them in the act of holding on to money that isn't theirs (i.e. stealing from employees).
Get your money or get out.
-bry
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Permalink Reply by eric on
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We handle tips a little different then some, and the staff developed it. The management should not be collecting tips (just my opinion)
Before a person starts their shift the money from the previous hours are split between the people that worked it. Sometimes right then, sometimes
Its labeled sealed and put aside until the end of shift. So we have a 630am person a 730 am and an 11am person, at 730 the 630 person collects the tips
From 630 to 730, at 11am both the 630 and 730 person split the tips. Then at the end of the day they all split what came after that. (Long explanation sorry, late night)
each person claims what he or she made each day on the time clock. They pay the taxes from those tips with their hourly wage check . The only involment I have or want with the tips is 1) making sure they claim the tips and 2) exchange the small bills and change for large bills
I would highly suggest a payroll company or bookkeeper for payroll.
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Missy-
From your description, it certainly sounds shady. Many states prohibit management from sharing in the tips of employees. Starbucks recently was in the news because shift supervisors were sharing tips in California. Management and ownership should exclude themselves out of the tip pool (unless they work by themselves) - but in many cases, that is a decision of preference rather than accord of law. Best to check the labor laws in your state regarding tip pooling and sharing.
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Permalink Reply by Brady on
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miKe mcKoffee aka Mike McGinness said:...Tips while paid daily (next day unless they're there at closing) in cash as I said they are logged on the time sheet. They are then included in payroll as two entries: report cash tips and report cash tips paid out for the time period so properly dealt with IRS, Social Security and Medicare withholding wise.
I agree with much that has been said in this discussion so far, but this is an important point that Mike has made. Your shop is REQUIRED by law to track and report your tips to the IRS, AND is responsible for paying out Social Security, etc. The system that Mike described is one way to do this. We do something similar, but we split out tips at the end of each shift and declare them on our time sheets. Clear, documented, and legal. And easily verified... it is a stack of cash split evenly.
When you file your income taxes, you will be asked to declare your tips unless your employer has already declared them. If your employer has not declared tips, there are 2 choices - lie about your tips and say you got none (and take your chances) or declare tips, get the income tax hit, and your employer could then be tagged by the IRS for not paying the rest of the taxes on them.
You're probably getting screwed... you'll get screwed again come tax time, and your employer is probably taking chances with the IRS. Not good.
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Permalink Reply by Denise Smith on
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Tips at The Celtic Cup: When we first started we had hoped to be able to pay better then Minimum wage but a new business just starting out, already buried in building over-budget expenses we offered the minimum $6.55. At that time we counted, recorded and split the tips based on the number of hours worked during the day... all employees received a cut including the baker as it's her great food that accompanies the great coffee. Then when our enlightened government choose to raise the minimum wage it hurt big time! We had to choose between laying off/firing half our people or using the tips to cover the new wage increase. The crew still gets the full $7.25 an hour (which is often more than they made with tips before) and if we can earn enough in sales than we hope to return to them receiving the tips. Of course another option is if we do really well we just increase their wages and use the tips for various charities and other things. We report all wages, tips included and have from day one.
As a business owner it is appalling to me to think that there are those out there who would cheat their employees. My crew work hard and they are trying so hard to make something of themselves in this world. Any manager or owner who cheats and steal is not worth working for... if no one will work for them, they will go out of business... good riddance.
I work 17-18 hours a day 6 days a week with no salary; patience is a virtue and good things come to those who wait. ~80)
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