Tips, Wages
Hello, So I have been working at this coffee shop since it opened in February. I was told I would make 8.00 an hour and the tips work out to be about an extra dollar an hour. He pulls them all together for the whole week and then splits it that way. We dont get them the day of. But it seems that I am really getting short changed. One day when I was working I saw there was about 14 dollars in the tip basket. That's not including probably around another 15 dollars that we got in credit card tips. That day another worker was there with me and the manager. He worked until about 4. I worked a 6 hour shift. Then the next day I worked a 7 hour shift. When I get to pick up my tips..(which I have to ask for several times because he never offers them or always has an excuse that they aren't ready)
I got like 4.75 for that time. How is this even possible?
It makes me really frustrated. I believe he is taking the rest of the money for himself but how do I approach him about this? Is there a proper way to split tips and how do I resolve this? Id rather not quit because I really love it.
I got like 4.75 for that time. How is this even possible?
It makes me really frustrated. I believe he is taking the rest of the money for himself but how do I approach him about this? Is there a proper way to split tips and how do I resolve this? Id rather not quit because I really love it.
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Jason Dominy on
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This is not a good scenario either way. Your management doesn't have to be accountable to you (although they should be honest), and they're probably not going to be honest when reporting, either. Stinks, people really should have more integrity. You're only option is to deal with the fact that you know it happens, and can't do anything about it, or find another barista home. Sucks, and I'm sorry you are in that position, I know tips really have to count toward a barista's overall salary to even make it worth it.
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Permalink Reply by Mike McGinness on
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Different States obviously have different labor laws. Washington State has the highest minimum wage, currently $8.55 which raises each year tide to an index. And EMPLOYEE tips CANNOT be counted towards meeting the minimum wage requirement. None the less only my newest employee is paid minimum wage (and will continue at minimum wage until she's qualified to work the bar, currently primarily dish washer, sandwich maker etc.), all other employess paid a buck or more above min'. And fortunately at my shop their tips average better than $4 per hour worked.
Of course last Fall when the stock market crashed, business dove, and I made payroll a couple times via personal credit cards before drastically chopping hours. Fortunately business has rebounded along with their hours...
Denise Smith said:Tips at The Celtic Cup: When we first started we had hoped to be able to pay better then Minimum wage but a new business just starting out, already buried in building over-budget expenses we offered the minimum $6.55. At that time we counted, recorded and split the tips based on the number of hours worked during the day... all employees received a cut including the baker as it's her great food that accompanies the great coffee. Then when our enlightened government choose to raise the minimum wage it hurt big time! We had to choose between laying off/firing half our people or using the tips to cover the new wage increase. The crew still gets the full $7.25 an hour (which is often more than they made with tips before) and if we can earn enough in sales than we hope to return to them receiving the tips. Of course another option is if we do really well we just increase their wages and use the tips for various charities and other things. We report all wages, tips included and have from day one.
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Permalink Reply by Brady on
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Denise Smith said:...Then when our enlightened government choose to raise the minimum wage it hurt big time! We had to choose between laying off/firing half our people or using the tips to cover the new wage increase. The crew still gets the full $7.25 an hour (which is often more than they made with tips before) and if we can earn enough in sales than we hope to return to them receiving the tips. Of course another option is if we do really well we just increase their wages and use the tips for various charities and other things. We report all wages, tips included and have from day one.
As a business owner it is appalling to me to think that there are those out there who would cheat their employees. My crew work hard and they are trying so hard to make something of themselves in this world. Any manager or owner who cheats and steal is not worth working for... if no one will work for them, they will go out of business... good riddance.
Denise, you might want to reconsider what this sort of policy says about how much YOU value your crew. Frankly, it doesn't seem that you value them at all.
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Unless you're a cafe owner struggling to keep the doors open don't judge too harshly. In some states it is quite legal and often the norm to include tips towards meeting the minimum wage requirement. It may well be the case in Denise's state.
We don't know the details. And it just may be she discussed the situation with staff at the time and they chose to accept this route rather than layoffs and/or cut hours. I've seen many places close their doors the past 9 months since the proverbial fece hit the fan. If I hadn't had some personal credit card head space left I too might have been forced to close my doors...
Brady said:Denise Smith said:...Then when our enlightened government choose to raise the minimum wage it hurt big time! We had to choose between laying off/firing half our people or using the tips to cover the new wage increase. The crew still gets the full $7.25 an hour (which is often more than they made with tips before) and if we can earn enough in sales than we hope to return to them receiving the tips. Of course another option is if we do really well we just increase their wages and use the tips for various charities and other things. We report all wages, tips included and have from day one.
As a business owner it is appalling to me to think that there are those out there who would cheat their employees. My crew work hard and they are trying so hard to make something of themselves in this world. Any manager or owner who cheats and steal is not worth working for... if no one will work for them, they will go out of business... good riddance.
Denise, you might want to reconsider what this sort of policy says about how much YOU value your crew. Frankly, it doesn't seem that you value them at all.
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Permalink Reply by Jay Caragay on
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I too am not quite clear about Denise's practices. After her state increased the minimum wage to $7.25, she uses the tips collected to "make up" the balance between whatever she paid originally and the current minimum wage? Then when she says that the company is "reporting" both wages and tips, does this mean her company reports the $7.25 "minimum" (comprising of the old wage plus a portion of the tips collected) and the remaining balance of tips as the "tip income"?
If so, I think that practice is highly suspect and find a disconnect between her position of righteousness and indignation of unsavory employer practices when she seems to be practicing similar.
While I'm no expert in law, the practice of a different minimum wage (like that of a restaurant server) and the reporting of tips, is quite different than paying, say $6.25 then using whatever tips collected to bring the total hourly compensation to $7.25 and reporting the remaining balance as "tips."
Perhaps you ought to consult your attorney or accountant before advocating such practices.
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miKe mcKoffee aka Mike McGinness said:Unless you're a cafe owner struggling to keep the doors open don't judge too harshly. In some states it is quite legal and often the norm to include tips towards meeting the minimum wage requirement. It may well be the case in Denise's state.
We don't know the details. And it just may be she discussed the situation with staff at the time and they chose to accept this route rather than layoffs and/or cut hours. I've seen many places close their doors the past 9 months since the proverbial fece hit the fan. If I hadn't had some personal credit card head space left I too might have been forced to close my doors... Brady said:Denise Smith said:...Then when our enlightened government choose to raise the minimum wage it hurt big time! We had to choose between laying off/firing half our people or using the tips to cover the new wage increase. The crew still gets the full $7.25 an hour (which is often more than they made with tips before) and if we can earn enough in sales than we hope to return to them receiving the tips. Of course another option is if we do really well we just increase their wages and use the tips for various charities and other things. We report all wages, tips included and have from day one.
As a business owner it is appalling to me to think that there are those out there who would cheat their employees. My crew work hard and they are trying so hard to make something of themselves in this world. Any manager or owner who cheats and steal is not worth working for... if no one will work for them, they will go out of business... good riddance.
Denise, you might want to reconsider what this sort of policy says about how much YOU value your crew. Frankly, it doesn't seem that you value them at all.
Mike, you are right. It isn't appropriate to judge too harshly without knowing all of the circumstances.
I agree that my post is pretty harsh. Several of us perceived a huge disconnect in the thinking in her post which made her comments seem really inappropriate. It also seems that she doesn't see that disconnect, so I was merely trying to point that out.
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Permalink Reply by Missy on
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Yeah, I understand it can be difficult when trying to open a business. Especially with the way the economy is. So I am very torn between being angry about not getting the appreciation monaterly and feeling for him as a new business owner. But he does already have another shop open that has been open for about 3 years. This was a second opening offering different roasts and everything. But from talking to the other employees at the other store...they don't receive very much either. So we get about 5 bucks for working a total of 15 hours? It's not fair. I mean..we don't want to be selfish..but its a money world! We need it unfortunately.
There have been rumors from previous employees of the old store that the tips are actually going towards the supplies to clean the bathroom. I know several people that have thrown their hands up and quit. I think he needs to be approached in a respectable way and maybe he will realize that this has to change. He still has a chance to change. Or if he hasn't been reporting them since day 1 with his other business then is he going to get in trouble for starting to? But yeah..I think its time for me to just move on.
Denise Smith said:Tips at The Celtic Cup: When we first started we had hoped to be able to pay better then Minimum wage but a new business just starting out, already buried in building over-budget expenses we offered the minimum $6.55. At that time we counted, recorded and split the tips based on the number of hours worked during the day... all employees received a cut including the baker as it's her great food that accompanies the great coffee. Then when our enlightened government choose to raise the minimum wage it hurt big time! We had to choose between laying off/firing half our people or using the tips to cover the new wage increase. The crew still gets the full $7.25 an hour (which is often more than they made with tips before) and if we can earn enough in sales than we hope to return to them receiving the tips. Of course another option is if we do really well we just increase their wages and use the tips for various charities and other things. We report all wages, tips included and have from day one.
As a business owner it is appalling to me to think that there are those out there who would cheat their employees. My crew work hard and they are trying so hard to make something of themselves in this world. Any manager or owner who cheats and steal is not worth working for... if no one will work for them, they will go out of business... good riddance.
I work 17-18 hours a day 6 days a week with no salary; patience is a virtue and good things come to those who wait. ~80)
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Permalink Reply by Rand Flory on
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There seems to be confusion about what the law says. Federal law says that an employee must be paid at least $7.25 per hour. If you are a tipped employee, you must make at least $2.13 per hour AS LONG AS you make sufficient tips to make the $7.25/hr minimum.
Go to http://www.dol.gov/esa/whd/regs/compliance/posters/minwagep.pdf to see the poster. This poster, or something very similar, is REQUIRED BY LAW to be posted at your workplace.
The feds do not address how tips are to be distributed. If there is any law about tips, it would be state law, and most states do not address this issue. Individual states may also set different minimum wages (as Washington state has been noted to do in this discussion).
Tips for counter employees (as opposed to tips for servers) is a relatively new concept and the policies are established by the individual shop rather than by law (although there may be state exceptions, such as California). In fact, in my limited experience (Rocky Mountain area), I have only seen this in coffee shops and establishments that are similar in operation.
So if you don't like the policy of an individual shop, you can
(1) continue to work as an unhappy employee
(2) try to change the shop policy
(3) move to a shop with a better policy
(4) contact state lawmakers to change YOUR state law about tips
(5) or a combination of the above.
And of course, I am not a lawyer, so all of this is just my personal understanding.
Jay Caragay said:I too am not quite clear about Denise's practices. After her state increased the minimum wage to $7.25, she uses the tips collected to "make up" the balance between whatever she paid originally and the current minimum wage? Then when she says that the company is "reporting" both wages and tips, does this mean her company reports the $7.25 "minimum" (comprising of the old wage plus a portion of the tips collected) and the remaining balance of tips as the "tip income"?
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Permalink Reply by Denise Smith on
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Okay, clarification. The new Fed law says $7.25 an hour.
We were paying the $6.55 per hour plus tips before the new wage.
Our employees were not making this on a regular basis even with tips. We do not have any separate wages for different positions because we train everyone in all position (except baker/ kitchen manager).
Our employes are making more now then before.
... and it is the law that all wages are reported.
So what's wrong with our way of doing things? Did I miss something?
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I'm still not quite clear on things.
So you pay $7.25 per hour separate from the tips your employees collected?
Denise Smith said:Okay, clarification. The new Fed law says $7.25 an hour.
We were paying the $6.55 per hour plus tips before the new wage.
Our employees were not making this on a regular basis even with tips. We do not have any separate wages for different positions because we train everyone in all position (except baker/ kitchen manager).
Our employes are making more now then before.
... and it is the law that all wages are reported.
So what's wrong with our way of doing things? Did I miss something?
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Permalink Reply by John Walker on
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In Queensland our base rate is a little under $15hr and a 50% premiun on sat and sunday.
Tipping isnt such a crucial item to cover base wages. It is usually considered as a bonus or extra.
At our cafe the staff save all the tips and bank them into a separate a/c.
When they have a couple of grand they abandon work for the day and charter a trip to a Whitsunday island for a day trip including bbq lunch and drinks.
Or sometimes just a night out bowling, if they feel like a blow out, but it always seems to involve food and beverage, and never a coffee in sight.
Denise Smith said:Tips at The Celtic Cup: When we first started we had hoped to be able to pay better then Minimum wage but a new business just starting out, already buried in building over-budget expenses we offered the minimum $6.55. At that time we counted, recorded and split the tips based on the number of hours worked during the day... all employees received a cut including the baker as it's her great food that accompanies the great coffee. Then when our enlightened government choose to raise the minimum wage it hurt big time! We had to choose between laying off/firing half our people or using the tips to cover the new wage increase. The crew still gets the full $7.25 an hour (which is often more than they made with tips before) and if we can earn enough in sales than we hope to return to them receiving the tips. Of course another option is if we do really well we just increase their wages and use the tips for various charities and other things. We report all wages, tips included and have from day one.
As a business owner it is appalling to me to think that there are those out there who would cheat their employees. My crew work hard and they are trying so hard to make something of themselves in this world. Any manager or owner who cheats and steal is not worth working for... if no one will work for them, they will go out of business... good riddance.
I work 17-18 hours a day 6 days a week with no salary; patience is a virtue and good things come to those who wait. ~80)
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Denise Smith said:Okay, clarification. The new Fed law says $7.25 an hour.
We were paying the $6.55 per hour plus tips before the new wage.
Our employees were not making this on a regular basis even with tips. We do not have any separate wages for different positions because we train everyone in all position (except baker/ kitchen manager).
Our employes are making more now then before.
... and it is the law that all wages are reported.
So what's wrong with our way of doing things? Did I miss something?
What's wrong? Nothing. As I understand it, what you are doing is perfectly legal. However, I don't think this approach is standard in our business. I suspect that standard practice is starting pay a little over minimum wage PLUS tips. Obviously, it is your choice... however, I will point out that it seems inappropriate for you to complain on this forum about having to pay your baristas minimum wage as you did earlier.
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