Pull the shot directly into the mug, or into shot glasses?
Thanks
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Matthew Pitts on
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At our shop, we always pour into shot glasses, unless you're pulling straight shots for a customer.
Mainly for consistency purposes. I think it helps especially while training a new barista to get practice with their dosage, tamp etc.
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Permalink Reply by Bryan Wray on
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@Ricky
You're right brotha!
A couple of days of testing and I feel like a complete imbecile. The difference between a "pulled straight into" and "pulled then poured" is painfully night and day. Why have I never done this test? Gaaaah! I haven't taken the test to drinks above a capp yet, but I'm quite convinced there would be a noticeable difference on these drinks as well.
To some of miKe's points: swirling doesn't really work the same. Stirring does. So I guess one way to skip the shot glass cleanup is to stir the 'spro before adding milk.
Now I'm wondering if different mugs would have advantages over others due to shape.
These are my observations so far, YMMV.
I haven't seen any stirred shots in competition yet (for capps). I certainly don't get around to watching all of the regional comps, so I miss a good 50+% of the competitors. Anyone noticed any stirred shots or people pulling into alternate vessels?
-bry
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Permalink Reply by Mike McGinness on
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While container transferring or stirring may make for an homogonized espresso shot for the pour, be aware not all customers will prefer it that way. Just yesterday discussed it with one of our customers with an advanced palate. (Jamie) He prefers his macchiato to display the layered espresso flavors of an unstirred build.
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Permalink Reply by Nicole on
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I try as often as possible to pull a shot directly in the cup. When I use a shot glass or demi glass I loose a lot of the crema, pouring right into the glass keeps this.
Especially for Americanos.... I love how it looks when there is crema on top of the water rather than it mixing in.
Just my opinion though.
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Permalink Reply by Ben Homan on
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I found all of these replies very interesting.
I think I'm still going to pull them into the shot glasses though because I feel more confident in my drinks when I do that.
Thanks
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Permalink Reply by Chris on
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Ben Homan said:I think I'm still going to pull them into the shot glasses though because I feel more confident in my drinks when I do that.
Considering how sensitive a new shot is to temperature, I'd work on pulling my shots into (whenever possible) the cup that I was going to serve them in.
As a customer, every time I get my shots transferred from shot glasses to my cup, I get the feeling that I got whatever dial-in shots he had lying up on the counter when I made my order.
Shot-glasses are test gear.
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Permalink Reply by Keaton Ritchie on
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When I build milk drinks, I always pour a drop of milk into the espresso, stir, and then pour. The first shop I worked in did things this way and it's something I've brought with me since. You can also get a way with just swirling once a bit of milk has been introduced. The reasoning for this has always been that it creates a more balanced drink. If you pour without stirring in some way, especially when pouring art, you're lifting the crema so that the drink starts of strong and ends mostly just milky. Pour a drop of milk in, stir or swirl, and you end up with a drink that tastes more or less the same from start to finish.
As far as comp applications, one of the competitors at the canadian easterns this year stirred, I intended to pour a bit and swirl but was a mess of nerves during my actual routine and dropped the extra step since I had to toss 4 shots before pulling anything remotely servable for my capp course. Of course, it could be argued in competition that one is probably better off leaving that intense hit of crema at the top of the drink: the judges aren't going to drink all of your caps, and may be looking for the more in-your-face flavour you'll get when you lift the crema to the top of the cup.
Bryan Wray said:@Ricky
You're right brotha!
A couple of days of testing and I feel like a complete imbecile. The difference between a "pulled straight into" and "pulled then poured" is painfully night and day. Why have I never done this test? Gaaaah! I haven't taken the test to drinks above a capp yet, but I'm quite convinced there would be a noticeable difference on these drinks as well.
To some of miKe's points: swirling doesn't really work the same. Stirring does. So I guess one way to skip the shot glass cleanup is to stir the 'spro before adding milk.
Now I'm wondering if different mugs would have advantages over others due to shape.
These are my observations so far, YMMV.
I haven't seen any stirred shots in competition yet (for capps). I certainly don't get around to watching all of the regional comps, so I miss a good 50+% of the competitors. Anyone noticed any stirred shots or people pulling into alternate vessels?
-bry
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Keaton Ritchie said:the judges aren't going to drink all of your caps, and may be looking for the more in-your-face flavour you'll get when you lift the crema to the top of the cup.
Go pull a shot next time you're near your machine, and let it sit for ten seconds or so, maybe fifteen, and then lift the crema off the top with a spoon and taste it. Then spoon off all the crema and taste the rest of the espresso.
It could change your comp technique, and your scores. Let your taste decide.
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Permalink Reply by R. Justin Shepherd on
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As background, I run a shop where latte/mocha drinks are set at 1-2-3 shots for 12-16-20 oz. And we just installed a new Aurelia with raised groups, this being an unintended (but positive, I think) consequence of me getting an "upgraded" machine I did not order because the specs I wanted were unavailable for some reason. So I haven't used it much yet. That said...
A 16 oz. is probably our most popular size for lattes and mochas, so what I have been doing the past couple days is a hybrid approach: Putting the paper hot cup under one of the spouts, and a shot glass under the other. This allows me to retain more of the crema in the paper cup, but also watch the volume of my pours against the time of the pour. And while I have not done the taste tests Bryan and Ricky have suggested (yet), it seems this might be the perfect compromise for someone who wants to a.) pour latte art, b.) monitor shot time/volume, and c.) "stir" the espresso (since the addition of the second shot from the shot glass would naturally mix the two when you pour it in).
In these parts (between Louisville and Nashville) you will almost always see baristi pulling directly into ceramic if the drinks are being served that way; my suspicion is that while the baristi might defend this as being based on taste, it really has much more to do with latte art. Until I read through this thread this morning, I've never really questioned it... now I am going to have to try a few things for myself.
(As a side note, I really appreciate you guys/gals for being willing, after years of experience, to question long-held assumptions and constantly re-evaluate things. My general experience is that people tend to grasp firmly to whatever ratio/method/definition they learned from the espresso pro who brought them up, and formulate a sort of espresso religion around it. And that's not fun, and sort of a jerk move. So thanks.)
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Recently the assumption I've been testing the most is "appropriate" shot times. It's amazing how many SO espresso I'm pulling between 18-22 seconds these days.
-bry
R. Justin Shepherd said:(As a side note, I really appreciate you guys/gals for being willing, after years of experience, to question long-held assumptions and constantly re-evaluate things. My general experience is that people tend to grasp firmly to whatever ratio/method/definition they learned from the espresso pro who brought them up, and formulate a sort of espresso religion around it. And that's not fun, and sort of a jerk move. So thanks.)
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Permalink Reply by Joseph Robertson on
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My first commercial spro machine was an E61 group Faema Jubilee. Had to use shot glasses. No head room.
It went bad and/or had some mfr. flaws so thanks to a good warranty, Delanios replaced it with a new twin grp. Aurelia Nuova Simonelli. Sweet that 20oz cups for go drink customers fits fine. This was designed with the US go drink market in mind. Love my Aurelia................
Joe
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Permalink Reply by Matthew on
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I completely agree with Rick here. and just to add a bit of opinion, I think the flavor changes when you pull the shot into a vessel that is not warmed.
Ricky Sutton said:
The advantage of pulling shots into shot glasses is that you can keep a closer eye on volume. It's hard to gauge volume in different sized latte cups.
The advantage of pulling shots directly into the cup is that you don't lose any of she shot/crema/heat in the transfer. Also, you don't have shot glasses to keep clean.
At my store, we pull all of the shots into demi's and then transfer into whatever cup. I do this to keep a close eye on volume, and also the demi's retain heat much better than glass. We just use the hot water tap on the bar to rinse them after each use, and keep them full of hot water so that they're warm.
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