How long does ground coffee stay fresh in doser???????
Hello to all, and proffessional Baristas in particular
I would like to know everyones belief on what is the suggested time frame that ground coffee will still be useable for a fresh coffee once it is in the grinders doser ready to be dosed,
I ask this question, as a individual who stated that he was a barrister, Said" it would stay fresh for 24hrs ground in the hopper".
My own experince differs from this and would like to hear others opinons.
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Deferio on
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Kim...
You may wan to try posting without commercials. It makes you sound more credible.
-cd
Kim Sammons said:Hi Peter,
In business (paticularly large coffee brands) its difficult to grind to order, which as we all know is the ideal. I was always taught that as a good rule unground beans should last only 24 hours in the top hopper and ground should last 4 hours. After these times the quality of the espresso poured will be of a lesser quality and so you coffee should be discarded. But like i say in an ideal world you would only grind the beans you need for each coffee. if you want to see the differences in fresh/unfresh coffee then try and pour an espresso from unfresh beans & compare it to a fresh bean espresso. This simple test makes for good training! I offer a free espresso taste & sensory test ebook in my website that would help you with it.
Thanks
Kim xx
www.baristatrainingcourse.com
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Also...
Chains choose to pre grind their coffee not because of need.It is simple ignorance, laziness, or both.
When we use phrases like "in an ideal world..." there is an insinuation that the we are somehow relegated to compromise. The only thing that keeps anyone from grinding their coffee fresh for each drink is a flawed understanding of coffee itself and the work flow skills needed to properly AND speedily prepare that coffee.
So when we ask the question of whether or not we should pre-grind our coffee ahead of time. We might as well ask if we should just make the whole drink ahead of time! After all...if you are going to start your downward spiral with compromising the very heart of the beverage...then consistency dictates you treat all other lesser ingredients with equal disrespect.
with no intention of insulting you, Peter...
Here, the problem is not what the correct answer is to the question. The problem is the question itself.
-cd
Deferio said:Kim...
You may wan to try posting without commercials. It makes you sound more credible.
-cd
Kim Sammons said:Hi Peter,
In business (paticularly large coffee brands) its difficult to grind to order, which as we all know is the ideal. I was always taught that as a good rule unground beans should last only 24 hours in the top hopper and ground should last 4 hours. After these times the quality of the espresso poured will be of a lesser quality and so you coffee should be discarded. But like i say in an ideal world you would only grind the beans you need for each coffee. if you want to see the differences in fresh/unfresh coffee then try and pour an espresso from unfresh beans & compare it to a fresh bean espresso. This simple test makes for good training! I offer a free espresso taste & sensory test ebook in my website that would help you with it.
Thanks
Kim xx
www.baristatrainingcourse.com
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Permalink Reply by John P on
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Deferio wrote, "Here, the problem is not what the correct answer is to the question. The problem is the question itself."
Finally,
someone got to the heart of it.
Having principles means conducting yourself (and your business) in such a way that it inspires others; looking for shortcuts will only inspire those without.
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Permalink Reply by Paul Yates on
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I have been looking for that Babbie's Rule of 15 for some time. I couldn't remember it, and the title, but I knew I had read it once. A great reference. Thanks, Chris!
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I have been looking for that Babbie's Rule of 15 for some time. I couldn't remember it, and the title, but I knew I had read it once. A great reference. Thanks, Chris!
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Permalink Reply by Jason Haeger on
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I love you guys. Don't ever leave bX, plzkaythnx.
Bryan Wray said:
Brady said:
Kim Sammons said:Hi Peter,
In business (paticularly large coffee brands) its difficult to grind to order...
No, actually it's not. Its just as easy as it is for any of us. All you have to do is care.
Indeed... not difficult at all. I watch $4000-$5000/ day (1000ish transactions) shops do it all the time. That isn't just for espresso, that's for every cup... drip is done on a per cup basis as well, no airpots.
It really does just come down to giving a crap.
-bry
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Permalink Reply by Bryan Wray on
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I always love how I'll say something that's maybe a little over the top and then you two follow me up with a "buffer" comment that puts what I just said in a far more PC and acceptable tone, haha.
-bry
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Permalink Reply by Laura Campbell on
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Daniel King Pizzutti said:I don't even know why they put automatic stops on grinder dosing chambers. Especially the commercial mazzers. Why encourage the practice of over grinding? I've worked at a cafe that had as many drinks as a barista could handle (plus some), all day long. And never found use for the system. We used level the dose back into the dosing chamber, but that was to cut down on waste, and it was going to be used on the next shot anyways.
Where I work, we grind to order during the non-peak times, (we're an espresso bar) but we get massive rushes and that's when the Mazzer's stop switch really comes in handy- it stops the grinder from overflowing! However the doser is emptied as soon as it's filled, so it's not really a case of over-grinding.
Having said that, if I go to a cafe that's not standing room only and I can't hear the grinder, I order a hot chocolate. Nothing worse than icky extractions (that you've paid money for!)
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Permalink Reply by Chris on
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Paul Yates said:I have been looking for that Babbie's Rule of 15 for some time. A great reference. Thanks, Chris!
Anytime. All I've done is distill all of the information that Barista rock stars and Roaster heroes have taught me over the years, and put it in a tight little jingle. Remember the caveats. These are just guidelines, and different beans will react differently. 'Fifteen' will usually keep you safe, though.
Bryan Wray said:I always love how I'll say something that's maybe a little over the top and then you two follow me up with a "buffer" comment that puts what I just said in a far more PC and acceptable tone, haha.
I feel exactly the same way, quite often.
It's nice to have interweb editors, ain't it? ; >
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Permalink Reply by Jessica Lamb-Brown on
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Depends on your standards of "fresh". I never let it sit in the doser longer than a minute, but prefer to use it in under 30 seconds, for optimum quality. But, a lot of people will use coffee that has been pre-ground for weeks, even MONTHS(yuck!), so depending on the quality of your beens, how old the beans are, how efficient your espresso machine is, etc. will change that taste and quality factors.
But, i think the standard is to use the ground espresso within the 30 second window.
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Permalink Reply by Joseph Robertson on
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Really folks. You have to ask yourself. Is a banana after you peal it. Are nuts fresh after you crush them. We really need to do more tasting. It is very easy to taste fresh compared to not fresh. Do side by side till you figure it out. Old school coffee was Folgers that was sitting on the shelf in the store how long, not to mention most likely Robusta. My mother and father thought that was fresh. They did not have a clue. If they were alive today and could taste what I am roasting and cupping today they would be coffee snobs like many of us on this list.
Joe
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Joseph Robertson said:Really folks. You have to ask yourself. Is a banana after you peal it. Are nuts fresh after you crush them. We really need to do more tasting. It is very easy to taste fresh compared to not fresh. Do side by side till you figure it out.
Joe
Yup. Fifteen minutes after grinding was the general area in which the coffee started to change in appearance, and then steadily degraded in flavour in the cup at five minute intervals, which led us to the assumption that the change in appearance heralded the oncoming degradation of the flavour. Folks with more sensitive palates would probably pick up on the changes before me.
If you can taste the difference betwe4en a shot ground now and a shot ground thirty seconds ago, you're wasting your talents behind a bar. That's a six, seven figure tongue. I agree that one should make the attempt to grind as soon as the order is made, and to follow though til the guys holding his drink, but if there are six of us, and we all order espresso drinks, I'm not going to be able to tell one from another if I get the first grinding or the last, if they're all ground at once.
OTOH, I've pre-ground coffee roasted today, or yesterday, to get them to calm down a touch. Fifteen minutes to a half hour makes 'too-fresh' coffee behave itself.
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