unblending the blend
Considering that different coffee beans vary in density and moisture, and that those factors effect the grind, would it not make sense to grind the beans separately into the portofilter, using say three grinders? It could provide some interesting results by layering the different coffees, and changing the layers to see how it effects extraction. Do you think it would make a difference in the quality of the shot?
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Joona Suominen on
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It might be funny and interesting but there's no way it makes any kind of sense :)
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Permalink Reply by Dennis McQuoid on
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Why do you say that?
Joona Suominen said:It might be funny and interesting but there's no way it makes any kind of sense :)
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Permalink Reply by Brady on
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I've heard discussions of lateral channeling before, but not dug too far into this topic. Sounds like layers of different size particles encourage movement of the fluid sideways between the layers, goofing up the extraction.
Perhaps if the particles were mixed within a doser before going into the portafilter?
This is not an idea I've ever seen suggested. You should get 3 grinders, try it, and post your results.
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That's because allthough I do find this interesting, educating and in some twisted kind of way funny, there's truly no justification or "sense" behind it.
The things you might gain by invidually grindinding the different beans would immediately be nilled by the added inconsistensies on variables like degassing, temperature, distribution, unpredictable effects of fines migration and so forth. There might be a way around all these but it'd be hella difficult and time consuming to execute so the question is why bother. If I need to wonder wether to bother or not, there's certainly no sense. :)
Is the principle of Occam's razor familiar to you? It's pretty grassroot level doctrine for scientific reasoning which could be translated "the easiest way is always the best way".
Dennis McQuoid said:Why do you say that?
Joona Suominen said:It might be funny and interesting but there's no way it makes any kind of sense :)
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Permalink Reply by Dustin DeMers on
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That sounds like an awesome experiment, I say go for it regardless if its backed by science or not. One of the things i love about coffee is experimenting. Recently Ive found my self testing things Ive heard or been taught over the years, and not even because i necessarily think there wrong, but because i want to know if/how much things are effected with what ever I'm experimenting with at the moment. Anyway I say do it, i mean it doesn't take a ton of set up right?
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Actually while you're at it, it'd be interesting to have one of the coffee layers dyed with some kind of color and examine the puck afterwards to learn about things happening inside the portafilter during the percolation. To my knowledge it's still largely a mystery what happens inside the filter and the vague "fines migration" is just about the only thing known.
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It's the three grinder issue that prevents me from trying it. Lateral channeling never occurred to me. Now it seems more interesting.
Brady said:I've heard discussions of lateral channeling before, but not dug too far into this topic. Sounds like layers of different size particles encourage movement of the fluid sideways between the layers, goofing up the extraction.
Perhaps if the particles were mixed within a doser before going into the portafilter?
This is not an idea I've ever seen suggested. You should get 3 grinders, try it, and post your results.
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Permalink Reply by Oscar Nyman on
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If it makes sense grinding the beans separately, it makes sense extracting them separately too? with individual dosing, temp, timing, volume, pressure etc? then mixing the shots together....
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Permalink Reply by Mike Cannon on
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I agree with Oscar. If you're going to go to the work of disassembling your blend, brew the coffees seperately and combine post extraction. Layering multiple grinds should lead to uneven extraction.
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Permalink Reply by Joseph Robertson on
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Dennis,
Just how much time do you have on your hands. My sense is you have quite a bit of time on your hands if you are a Barista. Joana really hit the nail on the head, your question does not make any sence or any science as I know it. I mean really Dennis do you want to drink an espresso blend or single origin spro? Or do you just want to play with it.
As a coffee roaster who studied with one of the best, the green beans of the 2 or 3 origins you are using in your pre-roast blend are mixed the day before to stabilize the moisture content between all different origins. Trust me on this one. After roasting at temps that I'm sure you know there will not be enough difference in moisture between the different beans to notice it in the spro extraction process. There are quite a number of other factors but try not to over think this wonderful art/science of coffee. Save your brain cells for caffination. Drink more spro.
But if you like to play with it, indeed, roast, blend, grind, pull shots, taste shots, cup the coffee. As a roaster cupping is what it is all about. As a barista which I do as well because my shop is still small and growing I love messing with the extraction as well.
Cheers,
Joseph
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Joseph: I had an idea that I thought was interesting and opened it for discussion among a group of people who know way more than I do. Some people seem to agree that it is interesting - even if impractical, which is something I also wanted to know. Just saying it does not make sense is not a productive response. Even if you say it twice. While Joona may be absolutely correct in saying it does not make sense, I wanted to know why, because I'm learning.
As far as time on my hands, I'm in the process of opening my first shop. Have lease in hand for a week now, in an empty space. I need to order everything, work with architects and contractors, and everything else. If I had time on my hands (and resources), I suppose I would have tried it on my own and posted results.
Thank you for your input on roasting and moisture content. I found that to be informative - and interesting.
Joseph Robertson said:Dennis,
Just how much time do you have on your hands. My sense is you have quite a bit of time on your hands if you are a Barista. Joana really hit the nail on the head, your question does not make any sence or any science as I know it. I mean really Dennis do you want to drink an espresso blend or single origin spro? Or do you just want to play with it.
As a coffee roaster who studied with one of the best, the green beans of the 2 or 3 origins you are using in your pre-roast blend are mixed the day before to stabilize the moisture content between all different origins. Trust me on this one. After roasting at temps that I'm sure you know there will not be enough difference in moisture between the different beans to notice it in the spro extraction process. There are quite a number of other factors but try not to over think this wonderful art/science of coffee. Save your brain cells for caffination. Drink more spro.
But if you like to play with it, indeed, roast, blend, grind, pull shots, taste shots, cup the coffee. As a roaster cupping is what it is all about. As a barista which I do as well because my shop is still small and growing I love messing with the extraction as well.
Cheers,
Joseph
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I'm not sure if your implying me with "saying it twice" but I truly tried to explain why it doesn't make sense and don't want to seem like a heartless monster (any more than I already am). For me "sense" is just a word and it is neither a good thing or a bad thing, it just is. So: although something may lack in sense, it may still be fun and interesting. I myself do all kinds of experiments all the time and they certainly lack sense and meaning. Needless to say they are mostly alcohol-related.
Dennis McQuoid said:Joseph: I had an idea that I thought was interesting and opened it for discussion among a group of people who know way more than I do. Some people seem to agree that it is interesting - even if impractical, which is something I also wanted to know. Just saying it does not make sense is not a productive response. Even if you say it twice. While Joona may be absolutely correct in saying it does not make sense, I wanted to know why, because I'm learning.
As far as time on my hands, I'm in the process of opening my first shop. Have lease in hand for a week now, in an empty space. I need to order everything, work with architects and contractors, and everything else. If I had time on my hands (and resources), I suppose I would have tried it on my own and posted results.
Thank you for your input on roasting and moisture content. I found that to be informative - and interesting.
Joseph Robertson said:Dennis,
Just how much time do you have on your hands. My sense is you have quite a bit of time on your hands if you are a Barista. Joana really hit the nail on the head, your question does not make any sence or any science as I know it. I mean really Dennis do you want to drink an espresso blend or single origin spro? Or do you just want to play with it.
As a coffee roaster who studied with one of the best, the green beans of the 2 or 3 origins you are using in your pre-roast blend are mixed the day before to stabilize the moisture content between all different origins. Trust me on this one. After roasting at temps that I'm sure you know there will not be enough difference in moisture between the different beans to notice it in the spro extraction process. There are quite a number of other factors but try not to over think this wonderful art/science of coffee. Save your brain cells for caffination. Drink more spro.
But if you like to play with it, indeed, roast, blend, grind, pull shots, taste shots, cup the coffee. As a roaster cupping is what it is all about. As a barista which I do as well because my shop is still small and growing I love messing with the extraction as well.
Cheers,
Joseph
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