Astoria Rapallo Machine Issues
Help!!!1
the pump on our machine is running for about 2 minutes every 15-30 seconds.
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Brady on
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I'm thinking fill circuit issues. What is your water level like? How are the shots pulling? Idle line pressure? Still doing it?
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Permalink Reply by Jeremy Perrine on
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We replaced the fill circuit still doing it. Head tech of Astoria USA was pretty stumped but stumped enough to figure it out. Said he was going to "call Italy." Luckily we got a back-up. Grindmaster Espressimo that was purchased by the businesses previous owner.
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The pump comes on, pumps for about 2 min then shuts down for 30 or 40 seconds and starts over. It isn't over filling the boiler or flooding the machine. Just the pump is running all the time. The boiler pressure is still at 1 bar and the machine rests at 3 bar and when the pump is on sits at 9 bar. Other than the pump coming on all the time, it's working well. I'm afraid that the pump is going to burn up. We've shut it down and are using a back up espresso machine. We've replaced the control board, water level sensor and pump solenoid. The oddest thing is that it doesn't start pumping till the machine has been at full temp for several hours. We turn it on, fill the boiler (auto fill setting), wait on it to heat up, make drinks for 4 or 5 hours, then it starts the pump thing.
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Permalink Reply by Mike Sabol on
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You need to get a multi meter on the control board and find out if the CPU is sending the signal to the pump to turn on. Sometimes there will be a mechanical relay on the board that sends the voltage to the pump. It controls one leg of the circuit. There should be a hot leg at the pump and the CPU will control the return path. Another option is that there is a short in the wires that go to the pump motor and voltage is getting in through some kind of direct connection. You might also want to see how much voltage is at the pump when it's running. Is it full voltage 120 or 208/220 or is it something else. Sometimes the rocker switches that initiate brew and fill will have separate terminals that connect to the pump and the valve. Maybe you have a steam leak that gradulally builds up in a rocker switch so that it connects voltage to the pump but not the valve.
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Mike Sabol said:You need to get a multi meter on the control board and find out if the CPU is sending the signal to the pump to turn on. Sometimes there will be a mechanical relay on the board that sends the voltage to the pump. It controls one leg of the circuit. There should be a hot leg at the pump and the CPU will control the return path. Another option is that there is a short in the wires that go to the pump motor and voltage is getting in through some kind of direct connection. You might also want to see how much voltage is at the pump when it's running. Is it full voltage 120 or 208/220 or is it something else. Sometimes the rocker switches that initiate brew and fill will have separate terminals that connect to the pump and the valve. Maybe you have a steam leak that gradulally builds up in a rocker switch so that it connects voltage to the pump but not the valve.
Good thinking, Mike. A short somewhere in the wiring, terminals, or motor itself would allow the motor to run off of the 110V hot leg it has. This was really confusing for me the first time, to discover that there was 110 at a component that was "off" on a 208/240 machine.
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Update: We've checked all the grounds (everything from the breaker box in the back to the shop to the plug to the inside of the machine it's self.) There is no CPU nor flow meters (the only automatic thing this machine does is auto fill and turn pumps on). I cannot think of another thing that could cause this. It takes hours for it to get to the temp or pressure or whatever to start this. We've replaced the control box, pump head, water level probe and solenoid. It'll be one week tomorrow since I had an espresso machine. Our backup (a Grindmaster Espressimo) will max out after just a few drinks and is not anywhere as stable as a professional machine.
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Jeremiah - The power to run the pump has to come from somewhere. When the pump is running you need to trace where the voltage is coming from. First, find out if the pump is getting full voltage. If the pump IS getting full voltage then there is a switch somewhere that is leaking or shorted. If you don't have a CPU or flow meters then that means you have switches at each of the groups to start the pump and open the valve. Each of these switches will have a hot leg coming in one side and and two wires going out the other. One wire will go to the brew valve and the other will go to the pump. I have seen those switches fail many times. It is not unheard of at all. It is important to remember that the machine is not magical. Pumps only run because electricity is being applied to them. And there are not infinate sources of electricity for the pump. In fact the choices are quite limited. If you PM me your phone number I would be happy to help you over the phone. We can figure this out.
Jeremiah Perrine said:Update: We've checked all the grounds (everything from the breaker box in the back to the shop to the plug to the inside of the machine it's self.) There is no CPU nor flow meters (the only automatic thing this machine does is auto fill and turn pumps on). I cannot think of another thing that could cause this. It takes hours for it to get to the temp or pressure or whatever to start this. We've replaced the control box, pump head, water level probe and solenoid. It'll be one week tomorrow since I had an espresso machine. Our backup (a Grindmaster Espressimo) will max out after just a few drinks and is not anywhere as stable as a professional machine.
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Hey guys... anyone else think perhaps its time for them to call in a tech?
Not to take anything away from the solid advice given thus far, or the ability of OP to DIY his way out of this problem, but there is value in having the skills of an experienced tech standing in front of the machine.
I appreciate the interest in saving a little money and learning more about the machine, but if you have a good tech available maybe its time to give them a call.
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We're to that point. I know there's a difference between Astoria Head Tech telling us something and a field guy with no biased looking right at it.
Brady said:Hey guys... anyone else think perhaps its time for them to call in a tech?
Not to take anything away from the solid advice given thus far, or the ability of OP to DIY his way out of this problem, but there is value in having the skills of an experienced tech standing in front of the machine.
I appreciate the interest in saving a little money and learning more about the machine, but if you have a good tech available maybe its time to give them a call.
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Permalink Reply by ryan mcdougall on
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I've heard of issues with machines where deionized water causes a conductivity issue between the ground and the fill probe. But, that wouldn't explain why the machine doesn't over-fill.
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It was a misprint on the part number. The part number was off by one. The auto fill solenoid was supposed to be the 220 vs the 110. My business partner kinked a line while replacing it and we're waiting on that part now to make sure everything worked right.
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